Interview: Elisabeth Clay is just warming up
A conversation with Elisabeth Clay, elite grappler and new mother, on her competitive career, her continued goals postpartum, and so much more
If you’re new here, hello! I’m Erica. I’m a brown belt in Brazilian jiu-jitsu and writer based in Georgia.
I love to write about fighters and about the things in life worth fighting for.
If you’ve made it this far and want to stay in touch with my work, consider opting into future interviews like the one you’re about to read.
Before we begin, a little “how did we get here?”
Entering 2025, my editor at FloGrappling embarked on a new professional adventure. (Corey, if you’re reading this: hi and congrats again!)
His departure from full-time content work at FloGrappling put me in an interesting position with regard to my own journalistic writing about jiu-jitsu.
As I saw it, I had two options at the beginning of the year:
I could continue pitching freelance pieces for FloGrappling under the graces of a new editor, or…
I could use the opportunity to “take the leap” and start telling more of the stories under my own “brand.” There were sports stories I wanted to share that didn’t quite fit the usual mold of FloGrappling, and I believed held broader appeal outside of the subculture of combat sports.
Elisabeth Clay’s story is one of those stories.
How This Elisabeth Clay Interview Emerged
I first pitched my editor on interviewing Elisabeth Clay about her pregnancy in April of last year.1 It was at a time when it was too early for it to perform well on FloGrappling and probably too early for Lis, too: doing the math, she was in her second trimester at the time.
So I put the initial pitch aside: one of Lis managing her pregnancy and any ambitions to return to the mats and reclaim her standards of professional performance.
I picked the pitch back up again in December 2024 when I saw the no gi rankings among women: Elisabeth Clay and Nathiely de Jesus—both relatively new moms—were both ranked in the Top 10. Like Clay, De Jesus was another athlete who had had an inspiring postpartum comeback, most recently making it to the finals of ADCC 2024.
After I saw that ranking list, I summoned my courage to send a message to Clay and book an interview. We ended up chatting on February 1, 2025.
Why I Think Elisabeth Clay’s Story is Important Beyond the World of Martial Arts
This interview isn’t purely one about Clay’s accomplishments as a jiu-jitsu competitor–though she has many and she considers herself far from finished.
This also isn’t strictly a piece about her “comeback” to the mats, mere months after pregnancy and remarkable as it was at the 2024 No Gi Pan Championship (Double Gold) and the 2024 No Gi World Championship (Middleweight Gold).
To me, Clay’s story is a broader one of determination, self-awareness, and, above all, commitment: to her sport, her family, and to herself.
Three Key Insights and Takeaways from the Interview with Elisabeth Clay (before get to the transcript)
Feel free to read on and draw your own conclusions, but for a few of my quick takes, here are three themes that stood out to me and when speaking with Elisabeth Clay:
1. The power of a good (marital and training) partner
Clay’s love story and relationship with her husband, Danilo Moreira, is heartwarming and hilarious. How they met, how they found out Lis was pregnant, and how they’ve managed the balance of competing and training while caring for their son “Danilinho,” born on August 19, 2024,
The forthrightness and intentionality about wanting to train through her pregnancy before they even got married: inspiring.
Sharing that her journey to conceive wasn’t easy and how the two were preparing to see a fertility specialist overseas in Brazil due to the cost of this kind of care in the US: vulnerable.
The fact that a little bit of Mucinex was what did the trick for her and she discovered she was pregnant before she missed her period and right before a superfight–and still won that superfight by submission against one of the trailblazers and GOATs of women’s jiu-jitsu, Luiza Monteiro: incredible.
2. How her professionalism coming up as an athlete in the 2010s carved a path for the 2020s cohort of teenage wunderkinds in jiu-jitsu to be taken seriously
Clay is “built differently,” as the kids say: you can see it, physically, if you’ve watched her footage. She’s hyper-mobile and has some ligament laxity, some of which might be expected from an ex-gymnast who pivoted to jiu-jitsu at age 12
In a sport that is now filled with teenage prodigies, Clay was among the first of that kind in both a time and place where cultivating one’s skills was harder to achieve.
Clay came up in the sport training primarily with adults, primarily with men, and who came to prominence in the sport primarily while living in Alaska.
Unlike the teenage hotshots of today, Elisabeth Clay…
Didn’t come up in a Southern California “Jiu-Jitsu Mecca” academy like an Atos or Art of Jiu-Jitsu.
Wasn’t born with literal bloodlines for greatness in jiu-jitsu (see Sarah Galvão).
Didn’t have a strong room of female training partners to “sharpen her swords” and improve as a kid.
In my opinion, Clay’s success as a teenager a decade ago paved the path for teenage hotshots like Sarah Galvão, the Funegra Girls, Helena Crevar and Cassia Moura to be taken seriously as athletes today.
I believe that Clay’s journey paves the path for more mom-athletes in the future to be taken seriously in their return to elite competition.
3. Pregnancy doesn’t have to be the end of an athletic career or of being competitive, unless you choose it to be.
In the last year, I’ve spent time researching the careers of various athletes in and outside of jiu-jitsu who returned to sport postpartum. There’s a longer arc of concepts I’d like to explore and people I plan to talk to in order to continue gaining insights in this arena.
Not every athlete has the sense of intention of starting a family as young as Clay, who is now 24 and started trying to have a child when she was 22. There are plenty of athletes who are fearful of starting a family because of the impact it could (or actually does) have on their athletic careers:
There’s the physical comeback
There’s the mental comeback
There’s the need for more support–from partners, family, and sponsors—while managing new responsibilities and demands as a mother.
And then some…
Elisabeth Clay shows that while staying in the game requires more steps—both during and after pregnancy—if you want to make it work and you’ve got the right kinds of people in your corner, you’ll adapt and find a way to make it work.
Without further ado, here’s the interview, which has been condensed and edited for cohesion and clarity.
I hope you enjoy this conversation with Elisabeth Clay.
Use the headings to skip around, or read it straight through to the end. Don’t let me cramp your style.
9 Years Later: Reflections on Clay’s breakout Performance in 2017 at ADCC West Coast Trials
Erica Zendell: I think the first time I ever heard about you was when you had won ADCC West Coast trials in 2017, and had set the record of being the youngest winner at 16 years old. Nine years later, what stands out to you when you look back on that time relative to where you are now?
Elisabeth Clay: It's crazy that it's been nine years, stopping and thinking about that. I don't feel like I'm that old: I'm 24, turning 25 later in the year. But it's definitely crazy to think like, “Man, that was nine years ago.”
It still sticks out to me that when I went to compete, I was like, “Maybe if I'm lucky, I'll make the podium. If I do really well, I'll make the podium.”
In my head, there was no way that I was going to win the competition or anything like that. I even remember thinking, "Oh, I'm in the quarters.” “I'm in the semis.” “I made the podium, and I’m going to the finals.”
While the ADCC Trials were such a big thing for me, it also kind of hurts to look back on the fact that I didn't get to compete at ADCC. That’s always been a little bit of a sore spot for me. Not because it didn't work out—if I had been able to compete and lost or something, it would have been okay—but more so because I was injured and that's why I didn't get to go. The Trials were such a big high, but it's followed by kind of a sad thing that I feel will always kind of be there.
It's all worked out in my career, and so I wouldn't necessarily change anything—who knows if my trajectory would have been different had I been able to compete at ADCC in 2017.
Reflecting on Clay’s Childhood Dreams for a Full-Time Career as an Athlete and How They Shook Out
Erica Zendell: When you were younger and thought about a full-time athletic career, how does where you're at now differ from expectations you had when you were a kid?
Elisabeth Clay: Even before jiu-jitsu, whatever I did, I always wanted to do something in sports, which is funny because I really was not an athletic kid. First, it was gymnastics. I’m gonna be honest: I did not have the potential there. In gymnastics, I wanted to go to the Olympics, which never would have happened. I was not that good.
Finding jiu-jitsu, I kind of “got there” right away. Literally at first class, I was like, "Okay, this is what I'm going to do. I'm going to take this all the way."
Worlds would be the big thing I haven’t done yet, but everything else has really played out really well in my career. I feel like I've done a good job making a name for myself. I'm married. I have my son. And I'm still competing and coming back. I feel like for the most part, it's all lined up pretty well.
Erica Zendell: It sounds like you've nursed an intense sense of athletic ambition ever since you were a kid. Where would you say that came from?
Elisabeth Clay: If you ask my mom, she'll say, “You were just always super determined.”
I was good at whatever I wanted to be good at, not because I was talented, the smartest kid out there, or anything like that. Basically, I just had the determination to do whatever I wanted to do. I might have had to put in twice or three times the amount of work as everybody else, because I just didn't have that natural talent.
When it came to school, I always got really good grades, but it wasn't because I was a super smart kid. It was because I would sit there and go over it and study again and again.
It was that way with anything. Just determination. If you ask my mom, she literally is like, “You were born like that. I didn't do anything.”
On Struggling to Conceive and the Moment of Clay Finding Out She Was Pregnant…Right Before Her Next Super Fight!
Erica Zendell: Do you remember the moment when you found out you were pregnant or when things in your life were about to change?
Elisabeth Clay: Yeah. I think it was different for me that it was for a lot of athletes. I feel like for a lot of athletes, pregnancy is kind of like a “Whoopsie! That happened.”
This had been something, even before we got married, that my husband and I were trying for: to start a family. It just wasn't happening for, like, two years. It got to the point where I said, "The next time we go to Brazil, we need to go see a doctor or something." Fertility stuff in the US is expensive—and if you're an athlete without insurance, it's even more expensive.
We were going to make a plan to go see someone because as two healthy adults, both in our 20s, this shouldn't be happening. Then we decided to try something random—Mucinex. I looked it up. It's like the random thing they say to try before you go to a fertility specialist. I was like, "Ah, why not?"
It worked the first month. I found out a week before I had a super fight at the UFC Invitational.
I usually don't check my weight—I sit around 152 if I'm heavy, and I fight at 145. I can make that weight in a week, especially with day-before weigh-ins.
I remember stepping on the scale and seeing 155, and I was like, "What is going on?" My weight is never like this no matter how bad I'm eating, because I'm always training, always active.
I took the pregnancy test in the middle of the day. My husband's taking a nap, we're both exhausted from training, and I'm about to start dieting.
I wake him up.
"I think there's two lines on this—super faint."
I was about to throw it out when I saw it and went to wake him up.
He's like, "But it's barely there."
I'm like, "Bro, your reaction sucks."
He's like, "It's barely there. Are you sure you're even pregnant?"
I'm like, "Two lines mean pregnant, no matter how they look!"
He's half asleep saying, "It doesn't count if you have to shine a light to see it."
I take about ten more pregnancy tests because I have the cheap little strips from testing every month.
I go through them and say, "No, they're all positive. I'm pregnant."
He's like, "Are you sure?"
I'm like, "Yes, but I'm pregnant and I have a week to cut 10 pounds now."
It was one of those situations where I was able to cut the weight, but it was definitely hard—my body did not want to lose the weight. I've never struggled that much with ten pounds.
When you're used to cutting weight, that's not a big deal—diet down five pounds, cut five pounds. It's not anything crazy, especially for day-before weigh-ins, but I remember my body was struggling. Thankfully I wasn't nauseous.
My husband was competing two days in a row at No Gi Worlds. The first day when he was competing, I had to do media for my UFC super fight. The next day when he was competing, I had to go to weigh-ins. I went to weigh-ins by myself, he went to fight in the quarterfinals by himself. I ended up being able to watch his semifinals. I fought the next day after he was done fighting and on the podium.
It was a whole crazy thing, but it all ended up working out. Finding out I was pregnant was definitely a very happy thing.
On Clay’s Intention to Train Through Pregnancy and Adapting Her Training Style Throughout Pregnancy
Erica Zendell: It sounds like you'd been pretty deliberate about wanting to start a family. I think I heard in one of your other interviews that even when you had met your husband, you said something like, “I intend to train through my pregnancy. If you're not good with that, then that's kind of a deal breaker.”
Elisabeth Clay: Training is a big thing for me, and I wanted to train through the pregnancy. I wanted to be able to bounce back fast. Plus, for me, mentally, I feel like I would be miserable during a pregnancy if I wasn't able to train. I love competing. Competing helps me. The hardest part of my pregnancy was not being able to compete.
Erica Zendell: Now that you've gone through your first pregnancy, when you think about what you expected versus how it all actually shook out, what surprised you?
Elisabeth Clay: I didn't want anything to change as far as my training went—I wanted to see how I felt. We waited a long time to announce, which I think kind of played into the fact that people thought it was an accident because we waited so long.
Honestly, I was able to train way more and way further into my pregnancy than I expected. Other people were probably adjusting, but I was training normally up until 35 weeks, and when I say normal, I still mean, like, trying.
I was able to train more than I expected to be able to, but also, one of the weird things about pregnancy is that one day you can do something, and then the next day you can't, and then the day after that, you can do it again.
It wasn’t necessarily, like, “Hey, at this many weeks, these are the things you can and can't do.” For me, it would change day to day, and sometimes something I couldn't do a week ago, all of a sudden, I could do again.
I would equate it to the way that you approach recovery from an injury. In pregnancy, the further along you get, you have to be a little bit more careful, but if you know how to listen to your body and if you've been training long enough that you know how things are supposed to feel, you can make adjustments. You'll kind of be like, "Okay, today this feels good and I'll do this; this doesn't feel good, I'm not going to do it."
For example, earlier on during pregnancy, bringing my knee to my chest was more uncomfortable than it was when I was significantly bigger and actually showing, because the baby moved up. My hip space was actually freer when I was more pregnant versus when I was less pregnant. It's crazy—I remember going through it and thinking, "This is so weird because three weeks ago I couldn't do this thing, but now I can." And then I stop and think about it and realize, "Oh, well, the baby moved up, so that makes sense. I’m not pinching the baby anymore when I bring my knee to my chest."
On How Clay’s Lifestyle of Training and Competing Has Changed Postpartum
Erica Zendell: What's your schedule like now versus what it was when you were pregnant and prior to pregnancy? Has it changed significantly in terms of time or how you structure your day?
Elisabeth Clay: Not really. The biggest change isn't necessarily my training, but lifting. My husband and I used to go to the gym together all the time—not doing the same lifts, but we would just be at the gym at the same time. Now when he goes to lift, I'm at home, and when I go to lift, he'll be at home with the baby. That's really the biggest change. We still go train together; training's pretty much the same. The lifting is really the big thing that changed just because somebody has to stay at home with the baby.
Erica Zendell: Walk me through “a day in the life.” What's a standard day look like for you, if there even is one?
Elisabeth Clay: Usually the baby kicks me awake—he's the boss. Even when he's asleep, he'll kick me awake, so I'm awake and he's still sleeping. While we're still in bed, I feed him. My husband will come in and wake me up because usually he's up first. If I eat, I eat something, but usually I just have coffee and then we'll head to the gym.
Depending on the day, we're either at the gym at 9:30 or 10:30 AM. It's a 30-minute drive. We'll do our training for about an hour and a half. After training, we head home. If it's a day that I lift, either I'll go lift after we eat lunch, or he'll go lift after we eat lunch, and then I'll lift at night. Now it’s basically just the one training session and then a lift. Before, I was training at night in the normal classes, but I just don't do those as much anymore.
Erica Zendell: Have you felt like you've had to scale anything down terribly much, or is it just getting back to feeling a certain kind of way in training?
Elisabeth Clay: Up until probably No Gi Worlds last year, I was still feeling like I was recovering. Right now, I feel pretty much back to 100% normal as far as the pregnancy goes, which I'm thankful to say at a little more than five months postpartum.
I do walk a little bit heavier, about two or three pounds, which makes sense since I'm still breastfeeding. That's a little bit more weight that I'll have to drop when I actually go to compete. But I pretty much feel back to normal thankfully.
Erica Zendell: When you were getting ready for No Gi Pans and No Gi Worlds in 2024 with the baby, how did that experience compare to a year ago, before you got pregnant?
Elisabeth Clay: No Gi Pans in October, I was walking around Medium-heavyweight (under 158 lbs). Usually I compete at Middleweight (under 147 lbs), but I didn't even want to worry about cutting weight. It was my first competition back, it was the baby’s first time flying, and it was my first time flying with him. I was going to fight the absolute, so I just bumped up to Heavyweight (under 167 lbs) to just not even have to think about the weight. It was nice to be able to just focus on a first competition back versus a first competition back cutting weight, having the baby, and figuring out how we're handling it all.
For No Gi Worlds in December, I cut back down to Middle. I was able to make the weight, but those last couple pounds, I literally remember telling my husband, "Why didn't I just listen to you and go Medium-heavy? I could still win Medium-heavy." I don't know why, but in my head I was like, "I have to be back at Middle."
After doing everything, I was like, "Okay, I'm happy I did the cut." But while losing those last couple pounds, I was thinking, "I didn't need to do this. I had a baby barely four months ago. Why did I do this to myself to cut all the way back down?"
At the time, I was still breastfeeding the baby. He’s teething. He’s keeping both of us up at night. He's super fussy. I'm having to make sure he's getting enough milk, and at No Gi Worlds then lugging around a bag to make sure that I can pump so that he has milk.
It's still something that's possible, but I think that would be the biggest thing to tell someone who wants to compete after pregnancy: there's just a lot more that goes into it. There's no more simple, "You go make weight. You compete." You have to make sure you have somebody watching the baby, make sure he's still eating while you're competing.
The Love Story: How Clay Met Her Husband, Danilo
Erica Zendell: It sounds like you and your husband have a very balanced relationship. Tell me a little bit more about it and about how you two met.
Elisabeth Clay: We met during COVID. He came over from Brazil to compete at Pans and Worlds in 2020, and when everything shut down, he got stuck here. Fight to Win was basically the only competition going on, and it was all in Texas.
I was up in Alaska at the time, and one of my friends messaged and said, "Hey, I'm in Texas, I'm opening my gym back up if you want to come down here and train." I was going crazy, so I said, "I'll be down there in two weeks."
I bought a flight, went to Arizona, bought a car, drove to Texas—it was a whole crazy thing. While I was in Texas training with my friend, I was able to get on Fight to Win.
We met at Fight to Win but didn't really talk—he didn't speak English. I think maybe I said hi to him, I don't even remember. Then we ended up training together when I went to Dallas because there's a [Team] Ares gym there. Funny enough, we're both Ares but had never met each other. He had just become an Ares black belt, I'd been Ares for a while.
I remember he didn't want to train with me because he didn't want to train with a girl. Also he didn't speak English and I don't speak Portuguese. It was awkward.
Marcus Antelante, the guy who owns the gym, stuck us together one day. I just remember neither one of us wanted to be stuck with each other. We ended up drilling together, and got paired together for the first round.
Later, Danilo ended up messaging me.
I posted that I needed to get a haircut–I had both sides of my head shaved at this point–and he put this headband on, and sent a picture saying, "I need a haircut too."
He'll still argue about it.
He'll be like, "No, you slid into my DMs and talked to me."
I'm like, "I still have the message!"
He literally sent me a picture with his headband on saying he needs to get a haircut too.
I also remember I was staying in a place that had a pool, and I posted a picture. He said something about being jealous [of the pool]—it was easy for him to message because he could use Google Translate.
I said, "Oh, if you and the guys ever want to come over, let me know."
He ends up finding a way to borrow a car to come over and see me that night.
He'll say, "You invited me over."
I say, "I did not! I said ‘you and the guys.’"
He goes, "Close enough."
It went from there. Then he had another Fight to Win superfight. He said, "I don't know how I'm going to get there," even though there were other people going, I offered to drive him, so we drove for three hours from Dallas to Austin. He had been living in Modesto, California, and was going back there after living in Texas. I was supposed to stop in California temporarily for like a week before moving to Arizona, but then I ended up staying in California with him for like a year and a half.
Erica Zendell: That's a great story. You must be coming up on almost five years together, since he first asked you out—or since you first asked him out, depending on who you ask. Did he get the haircut or not?
Elisabeth Clay: Yeah, like three days later.
Marcus, the gym owner in Dallas, was like, "I thought you were borrowing my car to get a haircut. You don't have a haircut."
My husband said, "The barber was busy. Can I borrow your car again tonight?"
On Hair, Style, and Self-Care
Erica Zendell: This is a pivot from talking about your husband for a second. I‘ve got to ask about your hairstyles, because you've rocked a variety of them over the years. In the promo poster for your upcoming fight against Brianna Ste-Marie, I was just like, "Wow, that's a very colorful braided set." Where does the inspiration for your hair come from?
Elisabeth Clay: I had short hair to begin with, but it wasn't this whole, "Oh, I want to go crazy and shave my head." When I was 13 or 14, one of the guys at the gym that was like a brother to me used to think it was funny to step on my hair on purpose. Total older brother, sibling type of behavior. I remember getting so frustrated that I went home and told my mom, "We're going to cut all my hair off. I'm going to cut it all off."
I remember showing up to the gym the next day and telling the guy who stepped on my hair, "What are you going to step on now?" and him being like, "Oh my…"
I had decently long hair, probably mid-back, and cut all of it off.
After that, I was like, "Well, I want a little bit of hair." So I grew out the top and still had the sides shaved. I started bleaching it, and then I would add color. When the color faded out, I would add a different color.
I started growing it out like two years ago, and then I would get the braids. That was a fun way to add in color because you can just get different hair, and the hair that you add in can be different colors. I think in the UFC photo you're talking about, I had knotless braids and it was blonde on top and the bottom was pink.
Erica Zendell: It looks really cool, especially on the promo poster. That reminds me of something you mention in another interview: I remember old competition pictures of you with eyelash extensions, too. Do you still do that anymore?
Elisabeth Clay: I just got over the maintenance. That was the biggest thing. I would have to get them done every two-and-a-half, three weeks, and that takes like two hours laying there–which wasn't the real issue–but when you're training that much and you have them, you have to keep them clean because they’re right next to your eyes.
With any extensions, whether it's hair extensions or eyelashes, you have to take care of them or you can start running into issues.
The lash extensions lasted for a long time. I had people ask, "Oh, do they get ripped out all the time?" I only had a couple times where I had lashes actually get ripped out in the two years that I had them. But it was mostly just the day-to-day maintenance: I had to wash them when I got up, I had to wash them after I train, I had to wash them at night. Then they took a while to dry, and then I had to brush them out. After a while, I was like, “I'm done. It's too much.”
Erica Zendell: I'm sure. So you’re extremely active: you're a mom, you're training full-time and teaching. I know that “self-care” is practically a meme at this point, but what are the things that you do for yourself that have nothing to do with your training, just because you're like "I like the way this makes me feel," or "this keeps me healthy," or "this keeps me sane"?
Elisabeth Clay: Honestly, I would say skincare. The lashes were that thing for a while, but now I invest a lot in my skincare. Especially with all the training and everything, I can at least take good care of my skin.
It used to be makeup though when I was younger: I used to be super nerdy when it came to makeup.
In Alaska, there used to be fights, and I liked to go to fights once a month because that was my time for dressing up. I would get done training, and I would only have like 30 minutes to shower and put makeup on. So I can do a full crazy eyeshadow look and everything in like 30 minutes.
Recently, my husband was like, "How do you do your makeup so fast?" I told him, "Because I used to do it in between training!"
Erica Zendell: Do you have a go-to skincare product?
Elisabeth Clay: A new one would probably be—and if you have acne-prone skin it might not be best for you because it is heavy, but I have very dry skin—the La Roche-Posay Cicaplast. I use that and then a chemical exfoliant. I think that's a big thing: if you physically exfoliate when you already train, it'll mess up your skin.
On Parenting, Kids, and Training Culture
Erica Zendell: Switching gears a little bit: you came up in the sport pretty much as a youth athlete, and started when you were 12, right? So you kind of went through adolescence in the sport. Now you've got a kid of your own. Do you expect your kid to train?
Elisabeth Clay: I would love it if he wants to do jiu-jitsu, but I'm not going to make him do it. Especially seeing it in gymnastics and then even in jiu-jitsu, I feel like when you force kids to do a specific sport, you burn kids out so badly. My biggest thing is he just has to do a sport. I would love it if it's jiu-jitsu, but he just has to do a sport.
Erica Zendell: Do you have much of a point of view on the culture of parents and kids in the sport right now? It’s a little creepy if you ask me, how so many little kids are trying to build out their brands on social media. I'm curious if you have a perspective on that.
Elisabeth Clay: It can be a lot. I think my biggest thing with the parents is the fact that because jiu-jitsu is so new, you get parents that don't understand the sport. For me, being an athlete and then also having coached kids a lot–I don't so much anymore, but I coached kids for about eight years–if you sign your kid up for a sport, you should trust the coach.
It's a huge issue when you, as a coach, ask a kid to do something, and they look to their parents for approval or if something's okay before they even look at the coach. When the kids are building a relationship with their coach and there's a parent stuck in the middle, there's a whole delay before anything's happening.
If things aren't safe, that's totally different–and that's why I go back to the fact you should really trust the coach that your kids are with. And if, as a parent, you need to have a conversation, have a conversation with your kid when you're in the car or at home, not at the gym.
When you're out in public, the first thing a kid does is look for mom or dad. When you're on the mat or field or whatever it is, the first place they look should be at their coach, because that's how that relationship should work.
That's a thing you see a lot in jiu-jitsu: parents that either train a little bit or don't even train at all are almost stepping on the mat, coaching the kid and telling the kid what to do instead of leaving it up to the coach, which is where it should be.
Elisabeth Clay: Also, I understand marketing and sponsors, but I do feel like sometimes the social media gets a little extreme. It’s weird when you make a page for a kid and the kid has nothing to do with it—like the kid probably doesn't even know that Instagram exists. That's definitely become more of a trend over the last five years.
Especially since I've been out of coaching kids for a while, I'm kind of on the outside looking in and seeing it: there's so many kids that have Instagrams that aren't the kids' Instagrams—it's of the kids, but it's not the kids' Instagrams. And then you get so many parents that are so hard on kids when they're so little. They're so little.
Encouraging kids, giving them all the tools to achieve their goals—wonderful. But if that kid feels like you're the one pushing them, you're going to burn them out.
If they tell you, "Hey, I want to do this," it's different being like, "You want to do this? This is what you need to do to get that." That's different. They're telling you a goal. You're telling them what they have to do to get the goal.
But when you get parents that are kind of living vicariously through them, it burns kids out. In jiu-jitsu, in gymnastics, in any type of sport, you could have the most talented kid in the world, but you do that and the chance of you burning them out is so high.
Erica Zendell: Would you say that there's something unique to jiu-jitsu?
Elisabeth Clay: I think it's pretty common across most sports, unfortunately. For some reason, I feel like in dance, gymnastics, and jiu-jitsu, the parents just seem to be crazier.
When I started jiu-jitsu, it was so new, at least in the US, and where I was in Alaska, that it was almost the polar opposite: I got told I was training too much, I was going to get burned out, when I was the one that wanted to go training, I was the one pushing it. I remember being like, "You're crazy. I'm going to be fine."
Erica Zendell: That’s a good point of where the intention is coming from: whether it truly belongs to the kid or if it's something that was picked up from the parent. It's tricky.
Elisabeth Clay: Yeah. It’s not necessarily the amount of training that's happening, it's why the training is happening. I think it's a fine line between, “Is it the kid or is it the parent?” There's a huge difference there.
On What Makes a Training Environment “Good”
Erica Zendell: We talked a little bit about having a good training environment, having a good coach, and the lens of parenting, but zooming out: what do you believe are the characteristics of a “good” training environment? How would you define one?
Elisabeth Clay: You should have fun in the work. You should be able to find the fun in the work. Even if you don't necessarily enjoy the training, but you love competing and how that feels—that's you finding enjoyment in the work. You learn to put the work in because of that thing.
A positive environment is great, but I don't think it has to go overboard. I feel like we say “a positive environment,” and it gets taken to the point where you can't tell somebody that they're doing something wrong, or you can't have hard training. I don't think that's the case.
I think hard training is good. Having a room full of people that have a similar goal is a great thing because then you're all working towards the same thing. You don't have anyone having to push anyone else: you're all just determined and you're there to have the same goal. That's very beneficial, but it's hard to find–not going to lie.
I think that's one of the biggest misconceptions I had as a colored belt: I was like, "Oh, when I hit black belt, it's going to be perfect. Like, I'll just have great training." It's not like that. It stays difficult to be able to find that training, at least at the level that I'm at.
Once you're an adult and you've built enough of a base, your training partners become more important than even your coach or your professor, but I think it's the opposite when you're younger or newer.
Erica Zendell: Would you say that when you're younger and newer, you have to rely more on the coach for the instruction, the direction, and how to structure your training? And the older you get, the higher your rank, you have to become more self-directed and intentional about how you're going to progress your own jiu-jitsu and take responsibility for it?
Elisabeth Clay: Yeah, exactly. I feel like when you're young, you need a coach even more than training partners—like if you had to pick one, they're obviously both extremely important, but it doesn't matter what training partners you have if you don't have a foundation built, and to build a foundation, you need a good coach.
As you get older, black belt or higher level, it's more important to have the training partners than even the professor. The biggest thing is really working through things, and if your training partners are all at a high enough level, you can all kind of work together without necessarily having a head professor.
Erica Zendell: What other beliefs did you have when you were coming up the ranks? What ended up being true and what did not, or what surprised you when you reached black belt?
Elisabeth Clay: I think you kind of build it up like, "Oh, Black Belt Worlds or Black Belt This is going to be this crazy thing." But the thing is, as you're hitting that point, you're progressing, and it really doesn't feel that different.If you stop and think about it, then it does, but when you're just going through it, it's just a normal thing.
Thinking about competing at Worlds as a Black Belt, you're like, "Oh, this is going to be this huge thing when I go and do it." It is, but it's also just another competition for you at that level. As the challenge rises, you're going with it.
Looking Backward, Looking Forward
Erica Zendell: What would you say is your proudest moment—life, career, what comes to mind?
Elisabeth Clay: Life moment would be—and this is going to sound so cheesy—but my son being born. Looking back, that'll always be a really big moment.
If I have to pick a career moment, picking one would be hard: ADCC West Coast Trials 2017 would be there. Making the Worlds finals my first year as a Black Belt in the gi would be a big one, especially because there's always this huge thing of like, "Oh, you only do no-gi." I have second at Worlds in the gi, I've won Pans in the gi as a black belt. I’d probably put [winning] Pans because that was my first major in the gi as a black belt.
Erica Zendell: I know you've got the UFC Fight Pass card coming up in March. When first connected, you mentioned that you were registering for Pans. Then you’ve got the rest of the gi season, Worlds and beyond. Is that what the calendar is looking like?
Elisabeth Clay: I’m probably shooting for Brazilian Nationals, too. It’ll be a little bit more complicated with the baby, but trying to work that out to where I'll be able to go do that one, too.
Erica Zendell: So you've got a full lineup for the next few months. Whether it's in the next few months or in general, what are you most looking forward to?
Lis Clay: Worlds, that's the big one. I think if you ask most people, Worlds is going to be the answer. That's really the big one. I've won Pans—obviously, winning Pans again would be amazing if I'm able to do it. Same thing: Brazilian Nationals would be great. But Worlds. If you ask anybody, they're gonna say Worlds is really the big one.
Closing out
Erica Zendell: That's a wrap for me. Anything you want to add?
Elisabeth Clay: Probably just thank Gnarly Nutrition . Going through pregnancy and all that, a lot of people lose sponsors. I signed with them right when I was pregnant, and I was able to use them throughout the pregnancy. Unfortunately not a lot of sponsors out there stay supporting you through a pregnancy. Gnarly kept supporting me through everything.
Erica Zendell: Awesome. Thanks again for the time, Lis.
Elisabeth Clay: Thanks for having me on.
Want to stay in touch with Elisabeth Clay?
If you want to follow Elisabeth Clay, here’s a link to her Instagram.
If you want to learn from her, she recently launched a Patreon where she’ll be dropping techniques for a much cheaper cost than your average BJJ instructional.
If you want to check out one of her favorite sponsors, it’s Gnarly Nutrition. Her affiliate discount code is CLAY30.
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EZ
I dug up the WhatsApp “receipts” from my editor when I first pitched him on the Lis Clay piece. His feedback, verbatim, was, “I think early 2025, the Lis Clay piece could be a good one.” He was right!
I absolutely loved this, Erica! I was all in on learning about Clay, and the way you conducted and framed the interview was stellar👏👏👏
Fantastic read!